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Старый 30.10.2010, 17:25   #51 (permalink)
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Дорогие форумчане, у австралов, как и u нас с вами, есть типа "гдей" форум, только называется Барабан.

Вот, пожалуйста, посмотрите, какие дискуссии проводятся на австралийском форуме по размещенной мноju теме. Итак поехали

ABC The Drum - I Spry with my little eye

I Spry with my little eye
By Mark Colvin
Updated Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:57am AEDT
A new docudrama lays out a great deal of the new information on the Petrov Affair and ASIO's role in it. (ABC)

<SCRIPT type=text/javascript><!-- if (typeof showPhotos == 'function') showPhotos('3050289-mediarss.xml'); --></SCRIPT>
I've written before about how, at the age of 25, I discovered that my father was a very senior member of the British Secret Intelligence Service, MI6. I was visiting him in Washington, where he was serving in what had once been Kim Philby's job - as the SIS liaison with the CIA.
One reason that he chose to tell me on that visit, I think, was that during my stay at his house in Washington, some of his colleagues from London would also be visiting. He needed to know that I would not say or do anything untoward. I was, after all, a long-haired journalist working for the Sydney rock station Double-Jay. Not exactly prime security material.
One night at his house in Washington, two of these colleagues came to dinner.
Discretion has never been my greatest virtue, and when, over the entree, one of these men happened to mention the name of Vladimir Petrov, I shot my mouth off about how disgraceful it was that there was still a D-Notice preventing anyone from publishing any information about his whereabouts, or those of his wife Evdokia.
Petrov was the Russian Third Secretary at the Soviet Embassy in Canberra, who had defected in 1954 in spectacular circumstances.
I had had a few drinks, enough not to know when to stop, and when these two MI6 men told me that Petrov and his wife were still at risk from a vengeful KGB, I expressed deep scepticism. It was the belief of many people I knew in Sydney, I said, that Petrov had been small fry, and that the importance of his defection had been greatly exaggerated, probably in order to help Robert Menzies's re-election.
This unleashed fury from both men.
Petrov, they told me, was far from small fry.
He was one of the most important defectors in western intelligence history, and the information he and his wife had handed over had saved many lives for both MI6 and the CIA.
I retreated, forced to admit that I didn't know enough to back up my own case, but still unsure. After all, I reasoned, to paraphrase Mandy Rice-Davies, "They would say that, wouldn't they?"
I filed that incident away, though, and ever since I've been curious about the Petrov affair.
The Petrovs' defection had a cataclysmic effect on Australian politics, because of the information they brought with them about a high-level spy ring within the Australian government.
Among other things, it seems to have unhinged the opposition leader, Herbert Vere "Doc" Evatt. He became obsessed with the idea that the whole thing was a set-up, and that his friends and colleagues had been framed in a conspiracy against the ALP.
Evatt took the extraordinary step of writing to Moscow to ask if it was true that his party and the public service had been infiltrated - and the even more bizarre step of brandishing in parliament - to widespread incredulity - a letter from the Soviet foreign minister, Stalin's old colleague Vyacheslav Molotov, as proof that it was not true.
It was the Petrov affair, too, which caused what became know as The Split - in which the strongly anti-communist, Catholic DLP broke away from the ALP, effectively helping the Liberal-Country Party coalition stay in power for another 17 years.
In 1991, I had a further tantalising, but ultimately frustrating, chance to find out more about the Petrov affair. The late Richard Hall, in researching his book The Rhodes Scholar Spy, had tracked down Ian Milner, one of the six people named as constituting the Canberra spy ring which had been passing documents to the KGB.
Milner was living in Prague, where he had been living since the early '50s. Given that he had never come back, it looked very much like a defection, but he continued to deny that he had been a spy. I was working at Four Corners, and Hall approached us with the news that Milner was prepared to talk for the first time, on national television. It seemed like a chance worth taking, because even without a confession, his denials and evasions would still be illuminating, so we organised flights to Prague.
We were due to arrive on June 6, and on May 31 I rang Milner's flat in Prague to confirm details of our meeting. My question, "Is Ian there?", was met with a sharp intake of breath and sobs.
"Ian died this morning," his wife told me. Another piece in the jigsaw of the Petrov affair was gone for ever.
Now, though, there's very little doubt about the value of the Petrovs' information in 1954.
The evidence comes in part from material dug out of the Moscow archives after the end of the Cold War, but also from material declassified in this country and in the USA.
What we know now is that the key reason that Ian Milner was known to be a spy was because he was named as such in cable intercepts between the KGB in Canberra and Moscow broken by the cryptologists of Project Venona.
These intercepts could not be acknowledged because the Intelligence services were desperate not to let Moscow know that its codes had been broken. But from the time of the Petrov Royal Commission (1954-1955), it was clear to Australia's spy agencies that six people, 'Fergan OSullivan, Rupert Lockwood, Frances Bernie, Ian Milner, Jim Hill and Walter Clayton, were indeed members of a highly placed spy ring working for the Soviet Union.
Now we know even more about the Petrov Affair, and ASIO's role in it, and a docudrama screening on the ABC next Thursday lays out a great deal of the new information. It's called I, Spry, and in it Tony Lllewellyn-Jones gives a masterful performance as Charles Spry, the founding director of ASIO. Central to the performance are recreations of a series of interviews which Spry gave to the Hope Royal Commission in 1976. There's also remarkable surveillance footage from the time, when ASIO was going to extraordinary lengths to watch what suspected Communist sympathisers were doing.
It's no longer possible to see the Petrov allegations as only being supported by the Right in politics: in fact the two academics interviewed, who confirm the accuracy of the claims, David McKnight and Des Ball, are both broadly of the Left themselves. And indeed, Mark Aarons, born into Australian Communist royalty, this year brought out a book containing new information that Wally Clayton, the kingpin of the Canberra ring, had confessed his role before he died.
So my father's MI6 colleagues were right; I was naive and hopelessly wrong.
But does that mean that I, Spry gives ASIO a completely clean bill of health? By no means. The film goes on to show how, perhaps flushed with the success of the Petrov operation, Spry went on to broaden out the organisation's remit, to cover all kinds of "subversion". It made suspects and targets of anti-war activists, anti-apartheid campaigners, and homosexuals among many others. The film-makers say they've discovered that even the wearing of a red tie by ABC employees was suspect - an assertion I might doubt if I hadn't myself been asked in an internal ABC job interview why I was wearing a red tie. (I replied that it was red knitted silk, and I'd bought it on the Ponte Vecchio in Florence, an answer with enough Brideshead Revisited hauteur in it to turn away the question).
ASIO in the late '60s and '70s was clearly out of control, and what's worse, the film-makers have found evidence in Spry's Royal Commission testimony that he believed his own organisation had been penetrated, perhaps as early as the late Fifties, by the KGB.
Counter-intelligence work - the "wilderness of mirrors" as the CIA's James Jesus Angleton called it - drove Spry to drink, but ASIO's conviction of its own rightness in the wake of Petrov meant that there were few brakes on the organisation for the next two decades.
At a time when Intelligence is being beefed up mightily to deal with the threats of terrorism and cyberwarfare, we'd better hope that the many counterbalances to that kind of absolute power brought in, especially since the second Hope Royal Commission, are strong and effective.
Mark Colvin is the presenter of ABC Radio's current affairs program PM.
Tags: defence-and-national-security, security-intelligence, government-and-politics, unrest-conflict-and-war, terrorism, australia
First posted Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:41am AEDT
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  • ARW:

    28 Oct 2010 9:18:55am
    Superb article. Almost makes coming to work worthwhile.
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    • Si:

      28 Oct 2010 10:11:42am
      My workplace (in a previous incarnation) actually had a small but important role in the Petrov affair, so your statement goes double for me.
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    • scott:

      28 Oct 2010 10:12:28am
      superbly put, both the article and comment.
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  • Len:

    28 Oct 2010 10:10:42am
    An interesting article Mark but not completly accurate. Mr Justice Reed was the "founding Director" of ASIO not Brig Spry. Frances Bernie was not a man but a woman- a secretary working in Dr Evatt's office.
    Anti war and anti apartheid activists were originally targeted by ASIO because the CPA and the Trotysyist organisation "Resistance" were substantially controlling the movement. The KGB archives also clearly reveal that the Comintern of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union sent out a directive to all aligned Western Communist parties in 1964 to "penetrate" and control the then growing anti war movement as a means of fomenting discord and division in the West. ASIO was aware of that directive.
    It would be most illuminating to see some proof of the assertion that ASIO targeted homosexuals as distinct from individual Departmental security concerns extrapolated at their own instigation. It is instructive to note that nowhere in the extensive Hope Royal Commission Report is ASIO ever accused of targeting homosexuals.
    ASIO's major fault was to not withdraw from looking at the anti war movement quickly enough when the ALP, Australia's alternative government, made the rejection of the Vietnam War a party policy.
    Even then ASIO faced the dilemna of the responsibility to collect intelligence concerning the very significant street violence (politically motivated) that the anti war movement produced.

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Старый 30.10.2010, 17:26   #52 (permalink)
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Implying that David McKnight was an impartial academic "broadly of the left" is disingenuous as it is well known he was previously and for some years a senior member of the CPA and if anyone doubts that ASIO should have been looking at that organisation then please read the book by Mark Aarons'(former joint Nat/Sect of the CPA).
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  • Paradise:

    28 Oct 2010 5:47:30pm
    Thanks for adding to the field; I still find it of interest as it opens a little more.
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  • Mark Colvin:

    28 Oct 2010 6:50:57pm
    I was unaware that David McKnight had been a member of the CPA, but the information only strengthens my point - as you'll see when the film airs, he underlines the power of ASIO's case -- he doesn't argue against it.
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steve dela montagne:

28 Oct 2010 10:11:46am
Still waiting patiently for the truth Mark - - - , will the New Tele series be a " docu-drama Based on the truth " - - - a " Film Special with a Scintilla of Fact in it " - - - or what ??.

As your lineage and your awareness of that lineage might suggest the "Wilderness of mirrors" - - - is continents wide and generations deep !.

My gentle and unbiased opinion in all this - - ( I quite frankly dont believe that either side could tell the truth ) is almost as much prepared to believe Molotovs "Appeasement document" as much as the Information from Mr Spry or the MI6 Associates that you met at your fathers residence .

But what really concerns me know is that we now seem to have the biggest most powerful spy and counter spy organisation that Australia has ever seen - - - - and that the Wilderness of Mirrors will be just as well controlled as it was in the '40s and 50's ( As if ! ) and what is that doing to our society .


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Oped:

28 Oct 2010 1:49:42pm
Thanks for a most interesting read, Mark. It confirms to me that both spy agencies and police forces need a shakeup at least every generation or else they loose perspective and either become corrupt or self obsessed.

I was most concerned to read recently that Asio, and ASIS are trying to recruit retrenched spooks from The UK at the moment and offering them also sorts of incentives to come downunder, including generous packages and even fast track citizenship!

Its like the 1950s all over again, and even has that ring about it of "well he could not be a foreign agent, he's from good English stock a graduate of Oxford!"
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Kerry:

28 Oct 2010 2:25:56pm
Sounds like Trotsky & Stalin have been reincarnated in this drama albeit different names the struggle remains the same. One stood for truth and equity the other oppression. Defectors are arbitrary in my opinion it depends on what side of the political fence you sit on. What is truth to one is subversive lies to the other.

The Petrov Affair will remain a delicious tale of counter-spy activity for generations to come, each with a new twist to savor.

I look forward to the docudrama with eyes wide open.
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  • Gerry Hiles:

    28 Oct 2010 6:23:27pm
    Not wrong about Trotsky.

    A lot of neocons started out following Trotsky, then switched sides and turned his doctrine into "never ending war" for Capitalism.

    Not hard to research, e.g. PNAC, so why should I go out of my way to help people who have never paid attention?
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Gerry Hiles:

28 Oct 2010 2:52:35pm
On reflection: anyone who knows much about the 'bloodless coup' against the Whitlam Government knows of CIA (and Rupert Murdoch) involvement. (The Falcon and the Snowman.)

Strangely, until this article, I'd never thought about ASIO involvement ... and yes I am one of those strange creatures who still thinks that Whitlam & Co comprized our only chance ever to be an independant nation. Actually it was Hawke and Keating (not the Liberals) who started the real rot that Howard could happily carry on with, e.g. monetarism, deregulation, off-shoring, and a whole swag more that has locked us into globalization and, thus, the global financial crisis now.

And now we CANNOT get out of it.

I follow US events very closely (more than I do Australian, because Australia is irrelevant in context, despite what Gillard and the rest of Canberra believe).

We are in deep, deep trouble (per capita we are more in debt, so I've read, than the US).

Given the links between ASIO, the CIA and Mossad - and the global spread of Murdoch/Fox - don't expect even the ABC to keep you up to speed.

I know stuff coming out of the US itself, e.g. via Architects & Engineers for Truth, Pilots for Truth, NYC Firemen for Truth and even some of the MSM, which the ABC will not touch.

Aside from that. What about the sub-prime/derivatives fraud in the US and how that WILL impact us?

Where has the ABC been in explaining this? Freely available - not just on the internet - in the US.

I can post links in US sites which I cannot do here, except in 'alternate media'.



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  • Tom:

    28 Oct 2010 5:40:26pm
    While it is true that we are deeper in debt per capita than the USA, we also have a higher average pay and a lower unemployment rate. Crucially, we also have a significantly higher GDP. Again, that's per capita.
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  • Gerry Hiles:

    28 Oct 2010 6:12:47pm
    Gillard has essentially returned us to, "All the way with LBJ (in Vietnam)." ... of course with the cheer-squad of the Liberal Party.

    United front, including on Iran.

    Gillard is a disgrace to everything Labour stood for - that's right "Labour", not the US corruption "Labor".

    Passionate? Of course I am. I have seen my country systematically destroyed for around forty years.
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Alex:

28 Oct 2010 3:16:38pm
I'm old enough to remember in 1954 one morning, my mother came into the bedroom carrying the Brisbane 'Courier Mail' paper with the headline - 'Red Spies in Australia". This was the Petrov revelation. Good article Mark.
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  • Gerry Hiles:

    28 Oct 2010 5:46:41pm
    More good than you can imagine Alex, if you delve deep enough.

    I am 67 btw.
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Paradise:

28 Oct 2010 5:44:36pm
Enjoyable and informative. (Surely you never worked for JJ?) We were all naive, righteous, ill-informed then. Menzies and Co. certainly used it all for continuing success, which set Australia back, ironically. The necessity for ghost work, spying, secretive organisations, is all so horrible in a more ideal and desirable world. Do we need to abuse privacy and authentic behaviour of people, who may be the "George Washington, Oliver Cromwell, Lenin or Mandela" of their country? Criminality, heroic resistance, triumphal domination, legality, these are mysteriously interconnected throughout political history. The Petrov question has more legs, you write. Such a shame that Calwell, Menzies' dear, great friend, was denied a fair chance to be PM, and no doubt a good one. And also, the current opposition look and sound so DLPish. Life.
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GrassyNoel:

28 Oct 2010 5:59:10pm
Excellent article, well worth slacking off in the office for .. agree with ARW
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lawson's mate:

28 Oct 2010 6:56:07pm
"ASIO in the late '60s and '70s was clearly out of control, and what's worse, the film-makers have found evidence in Spry's Royal Commission testimony that he believed his own organisation had been penetrated, perhaps as early as the late Fifties, by the KGB."

What makes you think it is any more under 'control' now? The quality of journalism in this country is always suspect when you and your mates don't follow through on what is patently obvious - we have a number of people on trial in Australia on terrorist related charges - how did they enter the country and what security checks were applied. A classic example of political correctness obscuring investigative journalism and reporting of the facts - to the nation's detriment.

As for the penetration of ASIO, how could one be surprised when such rank amateurs were up against the highly professional KGB. Despite the West's crowing how the communist regimes were brought down and it 'won' the cold war; an objective eye, some insightful knowledge and exposure to some excellent documentaries aired on the ABC network reveal the Soviets won the spy war with a resounding thumping.... hands down! In the fullness of time, what good did it do them, and what good is ASIO doing us - apart from providing material for the production of entertaining old war stories?
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Старый 02.11.2010, 17:49   #53 (permalink)
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Вчера пыталась вставить сюда "Фильм о фильме" с ютюба, но при загрузке получила, что ембедед рестриктед. Кому интересно, как снимали етот фильм, на ю-тюбе, в окне напечатайте I, Spry и кликните on The Making of I,Spry.

Завтра в магазинах будет продаваться русская газета Горизонт, которую, как я знаю, читают > среднее и старшее поколение, там будет публикация о фильме, передайте pls вашим мамам и бабушкам, им наверное фильм будет интереснее, чем вам.

PS: Hawk, вас таки узнала с 4-го раза "Ще не вмерла Украiна"
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Старый 03.11.2010, 19:11   #54 (permalink)
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На Facebook есть группа Russian Connection там уже 74 фоток с фильма I,Spry.
Если хотите - присоединяйтесь.
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Старый 03.11.2010, 19:27   #55 (permalink)
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80 фоток! ну что, товарищичи-комрады! До завтра, до встречи ефире в 9:25пм. Я вам ручкой помашу с екрана, буду смотреть на вас тоже, много не пейте и хорошо закусывайте.
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Старый 04.11.2010, 20:25   #56 (permalink)

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80 фоток! ну что, товарищичи-комрады! До завтра, до встречи ефире в 9:25пм. Я вам ручкой помашу с екрана, буду смотреть на вас тоже, много не пейте и хорошо закусывайте.
Ну что, все включили телевизора ?
Я даже волнуюсь
__________________
Ну и ушлый вы народ – ажно оторопь берет! Всяк другого мнит уродом, несмотря, что сам урод.
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Старый 04.11.2010, 20:55   #57 (permalink)

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ggjgfle илил нет
__________________
даже обувь не буду снимать ®
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Старый 04.11.2010, 21:54   #58 (permalink)
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ggjgfle илил нет
Переводчики есть в зале с япона тваго?

Алексей, я так волновалась, чуть не плакала, хотела даже не смотреть. Гениально. Я 3 гения встретила here in Au 2 из них на интернете вкл. Питера Бата. Газету Горизонт читали?, я там впечатления написала.Мне прислали сегодня, но как вставить PDF, текст только может? Русский клуб Питер сделал по подобию нашего в Стратфилде. Есть фотки на Rushian connection with him!

Молодцы русские актеры и энтузиасты. Тони замечательно сыграл.
Спасибо всем вам, дорогие зрители, молодцы!!!! не подкачали
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Старый 04.11.2010, 22:08   #59 (permalink)
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я посмотрела...понравилось...правда немного запуталась...,но вобшем интересные факты...актеры хороши...а кого вы Аzorchik там играли?
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Старый 04.11.2010, 22:23   #60 (permalink)
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я посмотрела...понравилось...правда немного запуталась...,но вобшем интересные факты...актеры хороши...а кого вы Аzorchik там играли?
Конечно запутаетесь! Это же не Голивуд. Там же столько шпионов, политических деятелей, истории. Поэтому я вам заранее статейки тут подкидывала для лучшего понимания.Я играла жену Федора Носова, которая зонтиком дерется и в квартире мы ругаемся, потом на магнитофоне голос мой звучит. Фотки там вверху есть и
Making the I,Spry хорошо показывает нашу с Федором 1ю сценку.
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Старый 04.11.2010, 22:32   #61 (permalink)
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Жмите на watch on youtube


Последний раз редактировалось Azorchik; 04.11.2010 в 22:35.
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Старый 04.11.2010, 22:51   #62 (permalink)
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вы молодез...а русский платок на плечах очень колоритно...поздравляю с таким событием...удачи на киношном поприше...представляю как интересно было на сьемках..
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Старый 04.11.2010, 22:58   #63 (permalink)
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Спасибо, Олюшка. Самое интересное было общение с крю и с Питером. С федором Носовым было легко играть с полуслова завелись и поехали-импровизация в основном. Про платок я настояла, сказaла, что платок моей тети принесет удачу и он принес.
Фото с Питером Баттом вверху. Это русский клуб в фильме. Кто бывал в ру клубе в Стратфилде -узнаете наверное, сходство.
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Старый 04.11.2010, 23:10   #64 (permalink)
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молодзы ,кино спокойное,без поливания грязью когонибыло,просто факты...я очень переживала ,что покажут русских как обычно это делают в голивуде...
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Старый 04.11.2010, 23:23   #65 (permalink)
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молодзы ,кино спокойное,без поливания грязью когонибыло,просто факты...я очень переживала ,что покажут русских как обычно это делают в голивуде...
Олюшка, вы не поверите я о том же самом беспокоилась. Питеру сказала, что мало ли какие аворды выиграли в Голивуде, никакие Оскары не помогли им хоть раз изобразить русских в их фильмах правдиво.
Знаете, если бы вы Питеру и Анне это сказали, они были бы несказанно рады. Спасибо на добром слове.
Пойду спать, счастливая. Спокойной ночи. Сладких снов. Завтра беседу продолжим
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Старый 05.11.2010, 16:54   #66 (permalink)
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Азорчик, респект!
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Старый 05.11.2010, 20:11   #67 (permalink)
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если кто пропустил, весь фильм можно посмотреть тут
ABC iView
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Старый 05.11.2010, 20:26   #68 (permalink)
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А можно отсюда записать, кто знает?
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Старый 05.11.2010, 20:55   #69 (permalink)

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Алексей, я так волновалась, чуть не плакала, хотела даже не смотреть. Гениально. Я 3 гения встретила here in Au 2 из них на интернете вкл. Питера Бата.
Без ложной скромности уверен что я в списке
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Старый 05.11.2010, 21:09   #70 (permalink)
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Конечно ты в списке и знаешь почему. Я помню!
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Старый 05.11.2010, 21:12   #71 (permalink)
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Но перед тобой правда в очереди был Старик Сантьяго, он уже, наверное, и забыл старики они такие. Поэтому мы его из списка гениев вычеркиваем.
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Старый 05.11.2010, 22:09   #72 (permalink)
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молодзы ,кино спокойное,без поливания грязью когонибыло,просто факты...я очень переживала ,что покажут русских как обычно это делают в голивуде...
Перевела на англ. и передала ваши комментарии Директору фильма, он вам спасибо передает, Олюшка.ABC iView
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Старый 06.11.2010, 13:06   #73 (permalink)

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Перевела на англ. и передала ваши комментарии Директору фильма, он вам спасибо передает, Олюшка.ABC iView
Передай ему что я готос снятся в его следующем фильме.
Репетирую роль Бунина
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Старый 06.11.2010, 16:24   #74 (permalink)
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если кто пропустил, весь фильм можно посмотреть тутABC iView
Класс! Спасибо!
Специально посмотрел снова, как жена Носова пилит его. Гениально! Готов смотреть этот эпизод снова и снова. Действительно, как записать?
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Старый 07.11.2010, 08:14   #75 (permalink)
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Азорчик, респект!
SG, и я вас тоже уважаю
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